Project Rod build 2007

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graylinghunter

Project Rod build 2007

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Posts: 573

03/09/2007 21:08:35

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Over the next few Weeks we will feature our attempt at building a sage z-axis 590-4 from scratch using parts and a home made jig
Project mk1 Electric rod wrapping rig.

Over the next few week and months we will show how this project goes warts and all.
This is an old blank we are practicing on the 'gnome in the above picture' is the brains of the whole operation:)
I will post more detailed pictures as we progress on www.graylinghunter.co.uk and the forum
The MK1 electric Rod Wrapper and Dryer
Its constructed from hardwood uprights and a pine base £7.00
Felt to line the uprights 36p
One scavenged microwave turn table motor from scrap yard.
One cheap drill chuck £3.50 car boot
main power lead also scavenged from the downer microwave:)
If you don't know what your doing with electrics then get some help 240v main kills be safe!
Tight lines
Phil

Knowledge is Power
www.graylinghunter.co.uk
Remember fishing tackle shops have sold more tackle than fisherman have caught fish enough said

"The nice thing about getting old," is that you realize what a madhouse it all is. Instead of a young person's view, which is that the world must be sane, with occasional pockets of insanity, you come around to my position, in which the world seems to be a complete madhouse - with occasional pockets of sanity" ( John Cleese 1988)

Last Edited By: graylinghunter 17/09/2007 06:20:04. Edited 2 times.

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graylinghunter

#1

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Posts: 573

05/09/2007 14:10:02

The rig mk1 Microwave motor powered at 6 rpm Slow

Close up of the Chuck plastic with perspex plate to protect from mains voltage
The center of the chuck is 7 inches or 180mm from the base

Pin system allows flat storage. Thick soft pine base has enough weight to support the rig with out costing a fortune.

Soft felt protects the Rod blank. Holes in base allows for longer rod shaft and allows room to work around guides when tension is applied. The middle of the V on the upright is also 7 inches or 180mm from the base. The uprights are all made from hard wood and the base pins are aluminum. THe pins are shown here to illustrate design but are hidden when everything is pushed flush into place.

We aim to keep the system simple to cut cost down other wise we may have just purchased a factory built rod.
A z-axis 590-4 blank cost about £165 from USA complete with guides stripper rings real seat and cork handle.
Our suppler is in the USA and has helped us select the components.

See Wayne at http://stores.ebay.com/The-Anglers-Habitat
Once we have finished practicing on the old rod parts we own we will post our first efforts. Just to let you know we didn't get it perfect first time. Practice does make perfect.
Also Silver Stoat (Dave) from fish& fly forum has also given me some welcome advice. Thanks again Dave

Our next forum photos will feature our test blank and tension device. Once its finished we will You_tube the project into video. I best get Paul Young to do the voice Over

I wish!

Knowledge is Power
www.graylinghunter.co.uk
Remember fishing tackle shops have sold more tackle than fisherman have caught fish enough said

"The nice thing about getting old," is that you realize what a madhouse it all is. Instead of a young person's view, which is that the world must be sane, with occasional pockets of insanity, you come around to my position, in which the world seems to be a complete madhouse - with occasional pockets of sanity" ( John Cleese 1988)

Last Edited By: graylinghunter 05/09/2007 15:08:42. Edited 4 times.

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graylinghunter

#2

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Posts: 573

16/09/2007 06:49:24

A close up shot of the 3 ply slot with the fly tying bobin holder. We were going to make a brand new one but this works fine.

This simple tension device complements the wrapper using a fly tying bobin holder simple timber slot cut out of scrap 3 ply held under the jig to allow us to put ample pressure on the wrappings. (no expense spaired)

Knowledge is Power
www.graylinghunter.co.uk
Remember fishing tackle shops have sold more tackle than fisherman have caught fish enough said

"The nice thing about getting old," is that you realize what a madhouse it all is. Instead of a young person's view, which is that the world must be sane, with occasional pockets of insanity, you come around to my position, in which the world seems to be a complete madhouse - with occasional pockets of sanity" ( John Cleese 1988)

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graylinghunter

#3

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Posts: 573

16/09/2007 06:56:29

Hot from the States the Sage Z-Axis 590-4 building kit arrives.

The rod bag and tube in my opinion are better class than the original Sage.
The Rod tube has been lazer cut with the Sage and Z-axis logo. Trust me it looks sharp and has sex appeal

The supplier has even pre ground the snakes for us so we only have to file some sharp edges off them and ream out the cork handle with a hand file so it fits the lower section of the rod. (Note a rat tail file works fine for sanding the lumen to size "internal center hole in cork")

Knowledge is Power
www.graylinghunter.co.uk
Remember fishing tackle shops have sold more tackle than fisherman have caught fish enough said

"The nice thing about getting old," is that you realize what a madhouse it all is. Instead of a young person's view, which is that the world must be sane, with occasional pockets of insanity, you come around to my position, in which the world seems to be a complete madhouse - with occasional pockets of sanity" ( John Cleese 1988)

Last Edited By: graylinghunter 16/09/2007 07:01:55. Edited 1 time.

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graylinghunter

#4

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Posts: 573

16/09/2007 19:28:10

The Reel Seat
Guides (These require de buring hence the rat tail file)
Wooden insert
Cork Grip
File guides The foot of your guides should be filed in order for your thread to stack up your guide. You can use a bench grinder to do this. Be careful not to overheat the guide and Blue them.

Cork handle (Bellow) requires reaming out to the same internal lumen diameter as the rod blank a large rat tail file will do just fine for this little Job. Too much pressure with the reamer will cause the filings to come off the reamer. Be careful not to Oval the hole you're reaming. Slow and easy!

Knowledge is Power
www.graylinghunter.co.uk
Remember fishing tackle shops have sold more tackle than fisherman have caught fish enough said

"The nice thing about getting old," is that you realize what a madhouse it all is. Instead of a young person's view, which is that the world must be sane, with occasional pockets of insanity, you come around to my position, in which the world seems to be a complete madhouse - with occasional pockets of sanity" ( John Cleese 1988)

Last Edited By: graylinghunter 17/09/2007 06:01:36. Edited 1 time.

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graylinghunter

#5

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Posts: 573

17/09/2007 05:59:13

Marking the Guides using a white china graph pencil.
The measurements for guide (snake spacing can be found on the sage company web site each model is different)
Sage recommends placing the guides within 1/4 inch of specified measurement detailed to achieve projected performance of blank design)
Note I have used small elastic bands to hold the snakes in place until the wrapping thread is applied.

A loop of thread is wrapped into the finishing turns on each wrap this allows us to pull the tag end of thread under the last couple of runs. The tag end can be cut off using a very sharp blade.
For the pull through loop I use 6lbs tippet for illustration I have used some silver thread so it shows up for the camera.

TIE OFF'S tag ends:

Tie offs are the method of tucking the thread at the end of any wrap. You use a piece of Monofilament line of about 6" in length. Place both ends together, tie an overhand knot in the mono. This is what you use to tuck the thread at the end of each wrap.

Tucking: wrap the thread up the guide, and about 10 wraps before you finish, place the tie off mono with the loop TOWARD the direction you are wrapping. Wrap about 10 wraps over the mono. Secure the thread with one hand. Cut the thread, leaving about a 6" end. Run the loose end through the mono loop. Pull the mono loop by the knotted end, thus pulling the thread under itself. Carefully cut the thread flush with the windings.

Use the back of the single edge Razor blade to smooth the threads in place.
Once the wrap is finished the Elastic band can be simply cut off.

This Wrapping has gold trim added its quite simple to do so don't panic. Note this snake is also on the female end of the joint. So its longer than most of the others. All female joints must have a wrap applied as a lot of pressure is applied casting and landing fish at these points. The Sage rod blank also had white dots already painted on the blank to show the spine of the rod. You can see one on the bottom of the male joint below.

A good tip is to apply masking tape to the end of the blank held in the chuck to prevent damage to the blank finish.

A thick layer of masking tape is applied under the wooden seat prior to epoxying it in place.
A word of warning do not use 5 minute epoxy you will need a little more working time. Rod builders epoxy will allow 30 minutes working time. This is a word from the wise!!!!Install Reel seat. Decide if you want your reel to lock UP or lock Down, your choice. Make sure the hoods of the reel seat are pointed the correct direction by securing a fly reel on the seat. After you're sure, remove the reel, and glue the reel seat to the wood insert. Use masking tape to secure while drying. DON'T glue the end cap to the reel seat at this time.Slide the reel seat over the butt section to the bottom of the blank. It will be necessary to build up the blank with masking tape to the same diameter as the inside of the wood insert.

Install Fore cork Slide the for cork down the butt section to see how far it will go. Start using your tapered reamer and slowly ream the cork by twisting the reamer around the inside of the fore cork. Don't try to ream too much at once. Frequently clean the reamer off and tap the shavings out of the fore cork. Too much pressure with the reamer will cause the filings to come off the reamer. Be careful not to Oval the hole you're reaming. Slow and easy!

Once the fore cork is snug against the reel seat, you're ready to glue.

Picture bellow of butt end with masking tape in situ ready to accept the glue for the reel seat.

Bellow This is a repeat picture of reaming out the cork grip hole

Slide the reel seat down to the masking tape. Thoroughly coat the masking tape with glue. Start twisting the reel seat down over the masking tape forcing the glue out the end. Glue the metal butt cap on and secure with masking tape.

Slide the Fore cork down the blank. Apply a generous amount of glue to the blank and again twist the fore cork down the blank.

Install winding check Slide the winding check down the butt section next to the fore cork. See, it covers all your goof ups. Wipe the excess glue off the blank.

Place the butt of the rod on a hard surface, and while pressing down lightly on the fore cork, run a strip of masking tape down the fore cork, around the butt of the rod and back up the fore cork. Secure the tape in place by wrapping around the fore cork with another strip.
The three pictures bellow are of the rod completely wrapped with the reel seat and cork grip glued in place the next job will be to apply the finishing coats of epoxy rod finish.

My next post will be applying the epoxy to the finished wrapped rod. Sticky fingers folks
If anyone is attempting your first rod build find something to practice on. We didnt get this right first time on the old bits of rods we experimented on. Practice Practice Practice. You may be lucky and get it wright first time but its a big gamble on an expensive blank. At the End of this build I will post some of the practice wraps and epoxy work some of its not pretty but after a few practice runs we got the hang of it.

Knowledge is Power
www.graylinghunter.co.uk
Remember fishing tackle shops have sold more tackle than fisherman have caught fish enough said

"The nice thing about getting old," is that you realize what a madhouse it all is. Instead of a young person's view, which is that the world must be sane, with occasional pockets of insanity, you come around to my position, in which the world seems to be a complete madhouse - with occasional pockets of sanity" ( John Cleese 1988)

Last Edited By: graylinghunter 04/10/2007 12:38:03. Edited 6 times.

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graylinghunter

#6

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Posts: 573

21/09/2007 19:20:50

I am not going to re invent the wheel follow this guide. I found one coat was enough for a 5wt rod, on the wrappings. Mick of bloke rods recomended standing the two syringes in warm water before mixing. This thins the mix and reduces any air bubbles in the finish I also found applying a little heat near the wraps once the epoxy is applied helps it flow better ' not too much as it will bubble and burn!'
As I have said before get an old rod section to practice on first.

MAIL: FLEXCOAT QUESTIONS AND
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E-MAIL: FLEXCOAT OFFICE

Links to on-line stores
that sell Flexcoat Products

E-MAIL: FLEXCOAT QUESTIONS AND
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Measuring and Mixing "How We Do It"
Measuring and Mixing FLEX COAT for a Perfect Finish

For years we have communicated with custom rod builders and manufacturers about our techniques to measure and mix Flex Coat Rod Wrapping Finish successfully. We decided to include the following directions in our catalog addressing only measuring and mixing of Flex Coat. The directions list the steps of how we do it on our personal rods. These techniques work with both Flex Coat Lite and High Build. Click image for a close up look!
We get our best finish with two coats. Some heavier offshore and surf rods may require a third coat. We call the first coat the primer coat, which in most cases is thinned with acetone. This technique is most advantageous when finishing a large number of rods. Thinning with acetone allows for increased speed of application and extended pot life. When thinning with acetone, apply just enough finish to saturate the thread. Understand that when applying a primer coat thinned with acetone we allow 24 hours for the finish to cure before applying the next coat. When we are rushed to finish a rod and cannot wait 24 hours for the primer coat to dry we do not thin the first coat. Not thinning the primer coat allows recoating in 6 to 8 hours. Click image for a close up look!
Note: We do not use color preserver on any of the wraps that hold the guides down because it prevents the finish from soaking into the thread, which is essential for a strong bond.
Temperature Check Prior to measuring equal portions we like our finish to be around 80 degrees Fahrenheit. This temperature makes it easier to measure equal portions and mix the finish thoroughly. In cold weather we heat the A and B bottles with a lamp, space heater, hair dryer, warm tap water or other heat source until the bottles are no longer cool to touch but not warm (neutral to touch). If the resins are too warm (over 100 degrees F) the catalytic reaction occurs too quickly. Click image for a close up look!
Measuring Equal Proportions (Two Techniques) To measure small amounts (3 cc of each resin or a 6 cc mix) we use Flex Coat syringes because they do not contain silicone. When measuring larger amounts (7 1/2 cc of each resin) we use graduated mixing cups. In a graduated mixing cup we always measure Part B first (the hardener) because it is thinner and levels quickly for most accurate measurements. We never measure less than 2 cc of each part when using syringes nor less than 5 cc of each part when using graduated measuring cups. Click image for a close up look!

Mixing Flex Coat
We always mix Flex Coat in a mixing cup with a small diameter round non-porous plastic or metal stirrer (approximately 3/32" to 1/8'' in diameter). Never use wood popsicle or craft sticks. Mix the finish thoroughly, the finish will first appear marbled, then cloudy, then marbled again, and finally it will appear clear when thoroughly mixed. It is important to scrape the sides and bottom of the mixing cup to insure all of the epoxy is completely mixed. Mix the Flex Coat until it is crystal clear. Some bubbles will form in mixing, and while a small amount is no cause for concern, avoid a frothy mixture. After the mixture is in its clear state it can now be thinned with acetone. The amount of acetone added should not exceed 1/15 of the total mixture volume. We use our graduated pipets for these minute measurements of acetone (see tips on measuring acetone for primer coat). Again mix the thinned Flex Coat until it is crystal clear. Once mixed, we pour the finish onto a disposable plate covered with aluminum foil to release bubbles and extend the pot life. This primer coat with acetone should be applied in a thin coat, where once saturated, you can still see the thread texture. It is important that the primer coat with acetone is not too thick, otherwise it will not set properly. Make sure the finish soaks through the threads and fills the air pocket caused by the guide foot, the rod blank, and the threads. We allow 24 hours for the primer coat to dry (6 to 8 hours for un-thinned coats) before applying additional coats. We never thin any additional coats after the primer coat.

Tips to measure acetone for the primer coat
For a 6cc mix of Flex Coat add 2/5cc of acetone, which is just under 1/2cc
For a 15cc mix of Flex Coat add no more than 1cc of acetone
For a 1oz. mix of Flex Coat add no more than 2cc of acetone

Knowledge is Power
www.graylinghunter.co.uk
Remember fishing tackle shops have sold more tackle than fisherman have caught fish enough said

"The nice thing about getting old," is that you realize what a madhouse it all is. Instead of a young person's view, which is that the world must be sane, with occasional pockets of insanity, you come around to my position, in which the world seems to be a complete madhouse - with occasional pockets of sanity" ( John Cleese 1988)

Last Edited By: graylinghunter 21/09/2007 22:54:30. Edited 1 time.

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graylinghunter

#7

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Posts: 573

27/09/2007 23:45:41

All was going perfect with the final coat until the butt section slipped out of the chuck and caused Damage to the epoxy sage logo area on the Rod.
All is not lost as Mick of Bloke rods tells me that It can be sanded once dry and re worked with epoxy without any damage or problems to the final finsh.
just when I thought everything was going to plan. But i did say I would sow this build warts and all
Phil
I will post the damage repair in the next day or so along with the finished rod.

Knowledge is Power
www.graylinghunter.co.uk
Remember fishing tackle shops have sold more tackle than fisherman have caught fish enough said

"The nice thing about getting old," is that you realize what a madhouse it all is. Instead of a young person's view, which is that the world must be sane, with occasional pockets of insanity, you come around to my position, in which the world seems to be a complete madhouse - with occasional pockets of sanity" ( John Cleese 1988)

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graylinghunter

#8

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Posts: 573

29/09/2007 12:17:13

Reworking the epoxy with 240 grit sand paper and electric hand sander.

Knowledge is Power
www.graylinghunter.co.uk
Remember fishing tackle shops have sold more tackle than fisherman have caught fish enough said

"The nice thing about getting old," is that you realize what a madhouse it all is. Instead of a young person's view, which is that the world must be sane, with occasional pockets of insanity, you come around to my position, in which the world seems to be a complete madhouse - with occasional pockets of sanity" ( John Cleese 1988)

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graylinghunter

#9

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Posts: 573

29/09/2007 12:34:49

Mixing epoxy into a plastic container.

Applying Epoxy to the label area on the rod. In the end I found using your index finger a better method than the brush for working a large area. Do not get carried away and put to much on! otherwise you will need the sander later.

I used a white quality white gel pen to write on the the rod blank I played around with decals but this was the best method unless you want to create your own brand logo and then a custom decal would be the way to go.
After you have applied the gel pen or decal logo you must spray with clear acrylic spray and allow to dry before applying epoxy coat!

Protect the blank at all times when holding it in the chuck (red tape)
A little epoxy to the spine line up dots is a nice touch. I just used the end of the brush to appy a very small amount.

The finished Rod

I am sure there are one or two minor adjustments I could debate on this build, But it looks good and feels good. Having handled and owned many rods in my 40 years I am not disappointed in any way with this rod I will gladly show it off anywhere.
Consider when building your own rod do you need a major brand blank? A Batson Rainshadow RX8+ 4 and five section blanks are reputed by many rod builders to perform as well as the most expensive brands on the market. Also If you have money to invest in your build consider very high end reel seat and fuji lined single leg guides. You pay your money you takes your chance.
My objective was to see if I could build a fly rod as good aesthetically and quality wise as the one I was previously supplied with by a custom builder who for what ever reason messed me about for many months.
The information and experience I have now gleaned has made me look at the whole process in a different light. I have picked up some very expensive rods in the last week and noticed things that I would not have before even on some I have owned for many years.
I am sure most custom rod builders repair specialist will build one for you to your specifications within a few weeks. After all once the components were in house it took me about three days including drying time with a couple of rug rats (Children four and under) messing about around me.
Also note casting Rod styles differ. What suits me may not suit you, so if possible get your hands on what ever rod takes your fancy try casting it first with the correct line on it. If at all possible borrow one from a friend for the day see how it plays a fish.
Take your time with the build and enjoy the end result.

I for one have enjoyed this whole journey I know I have only touched on the basics. I am sure this will be the first of many builds.

All thats left is to catch a good sized Grayling or Trout and christen the project in Style.

Dont forget to visit the main site loads of good info on fly fishing for grayling and trout.
Tight Lines
Phil Price Graylinghunter!

Knowledge is Power
www.graylinghunter.co.uk
Remember fishing tackle shops have sold more tackle than fisherman have caught fish enough said

"The nice thing about getting old," is that you realize what a madhouse it all is. Instead of a young person's view, which is that the world must be sane, with occasional pockets of insanity, you come around to my position, in which the world seems to be a complete madhouse - with occasional pockets of sanity" ( John Cleese 1988)

Last Edited By: graylinghunter 04/10/2007 12:42:35. Edited 2 times.

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graylinghunter

#10

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Posts: 573

03/11/2007 23:17:07

At last a 2lbs plus fish to test the build.
The z-axis pulled this one out of some deep fast water with a little help from me!

It also handled these two stocked rainbows with ease

tight lines
Phil

Knowledge is Power
www.graylinghunter.co.uk
Remember fishing tackle shops have sold more tackle than fisherman have caught fish enough said

"The nice thing about getting old," is that you realize what a madhouse it all is. Instead of a young person's view, which is that the world must be sane, with occasional pockets of insanity, you come around to my position, in which the world seems to be a complete madhouse - with occasional pockets of sanity" ( John Cleese 1988)

Yuku free message boards

Project Rod build 2007

Project Rod build 2007

E-MAIL: FLEXCOAT OFFICE

Links to on-line stores
that sell Flexcoat Products

E-MAIL: FLEXCOAT QUESTIONS AND
PRODUCT SUPPORT

Measuring and Mixing "How We Do It"
Measuring and Mixing FLEX COAT for a Perfect Finish

Click image for a close up look!

Note: We do not use color preserver on any of the wraps that hold the guides down because it prevents the finish from soaking into the thread, which is essential for a strong bond.

Click image for a close up look!

Tips to measure acetone for the primer coat
For a 6cc mix of Flex Coat add 2/5cc of acetone, which is just under 1/2cc
For a 15cc mix of Flex Coat add no more than 1cc of acetone
For a 1oz. mix of Flex Coat add no more than 2cc of acetone

Quick Reply

Yuku free message boards

Project Rod build 2007

Project Rod build 2007

E-MAIL: FLEXCOAT OFFICE

Links to on-line stores that sell Flexcoat Products

E-MAIL: FLEXCOAT QUESTIONS AND PRODUCT SUPPORT

Measuring and Mixing "How We Do It" Measuring and Mixing FLEX COAT for a Perfect Finish

Click image for a close up look!

Note: We do not use color preserver on any of the wraps that hold the guides down because it prevents the finish from soaking into the thread, which is essential for a strong bond.

Click image for a close up look!

Tips to measure acetone for the primer coat For a 6cc mix of Flex Coat add 2/5cc of acetone, which is just under 1/2cc For a 15cc mix of Flex Coat add no more than 1cc of acetone For a 1oz. mix of Flex Coat add no more than 2cc of acetone

Quick Reply

Links to on-line stores
that sell Flexcoat Products

E-MAIL: FLEXCOAT QUESTIONS AND
PRODUCT SUPPORT

Measuring and Mixing "How We Do It"
Measuring and Mixing FLEX COAT for a Perfect Finish

Tips to measure acetone for the primer coat
For a 6cc mix of Flex Coat add 2/5cc of acetone, which is just under 1/2cc
For a 15cc mix of Flex Coat add no more than 1cc of acetone
For a 1oz. mix of Flex Coat add no more than 2cc of acetone